BioWare sez: "Japan, you suck."

[FortNinety]

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/12/21/bioware-jrpgs-are-stagnant/

Hate to say it, but SC has a point; a rather ironic sentiment considering that BioWare games are seemingly the same old, same old. I love lots of conversation and backstory, but Mass Effect literally puts me to sleep.

It also needs to be noted that Sankaku has been the most vocal Final Fantasy 13 haters, to the point that they've single-handedly destroyed all my enthusiasm towards that game.

[dark steve]

What was the last great jrpg before Persona 4? Final Fantasy XII?

[dhex]

despite the source being bioware, it's not like they're wrong.

[isfet]

for reference, here's a map of the first six hours of FF13




which, hey...doesn't look to "role playing" to me, but herein lies the inherent difference between JRPGs and WRPGs.  if the battle system is as fun as it looks, then it really doesn't matter if there are no towns, no shops, few NPCs, etc.  Riviera already did this years ago on the GBA and it was a pretty fun game.  granted, i don't know if FF13 is actually fun to play, but this seems to be the logical streamlining of the JRPG.  if nonlinearity was an illusion in the older games, then does it matter if they've eliminated the part where you spend fifteen minutes trying to find where you have to go?

[dhex]

yeah, that's basically the point that bioware is missing. people buy bioware games because they want shitty romances/party influence games glued on top of combat systems and stories of varying quality. people buy jrpgs because they're on a shitton of xanax and need to kill time until the next dose.

edit: less silly on my part, i'd decided to play through bg2 because i'd never totally finished it. there are things i hate about it a lot, mostly technical problems with pathfinding and general ai poopiness, but silly romances aside it does provide a wide range of options for most quests, even if those options tend to be minor variations on "talk it out / trade it out / kill it out" in nature. i do think it's wildly overrated in many aspects, but i can still see why it's lionized to this day.

it lacks the tight polish of the first fallout, to be sure, but so do most things.

[isfet]

Bioware doesn't really appeal to me, but Dragon Age seems like that game i'd try if i really wanted to give them a fair shot.  which i will, some day.

Mike, i remember at some point you posited the question "has there ever been a JRPG with actual nonlinearity."  to that, i say Romancing SaGa.  it's pretty much the only JRPG i've ever played that encourages real exploration and interaction with NPCs.  there's no "wrong" place to go and you can consistently find quests to go on and things to do.  it's actually a really nice change of pace, plus it has a bizarrely intriguing battle system.

[drozdal]

Bioware games are not really my thing, but the whole story surrounding IP that is Dragon Age Origins is a bit funny. Bioware lost their D&D license, so they've decided to create their own fantasy world -new IP and take back the western RPG gamers by storm. You know new fantasy RPG's IP - where only limit is your imagination. So what Bioware did? They created yet another bland tolkienesque world where Drawfs are grumpy, elfs are tall and slender all women have large breasts and the smell of D&D cliches hangs in the air. They placed that world on the brink of destruction that only players can avert. It took them around six years to finish this product and that is supposed to be innovative evolution of the RPG genere?

Not like they do not have a point with JRPGS, but it's better to fix things on your own backyard before you start pointing fingers at the others. I understand that they just published new game and that game needs all the attention it can get, but why use such cheap tactics?

I'm waiting on what this guy will say when Mass Effect 2 will be just around the corner.

[FortNinety]

Yeah, if the story rocks, I could care less how linear it might be. That being said, I should still be looking forward to FF13, since many of criticisms is aimed at the story. Actually, not necessarily true...

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/12/20/why-final-fantasy-xiii-is-a-bad-game/

... Still, my main apprehension is towards the battle system. Which looks really neat, but complicated as hell. You're talking to a guy that could not wrap his brains around the materia system in 7 and whatever the hell was used in 8. Note: the former was offensive on other levels, the latter was just plain boring, so if I had actually given them a concerted effort, I might be singing a different tune.

But yeah, that's why I liked 10 so much: the battle system was fucking dead simple. As for 12, it's by the dude who did Vagrant Story, another game I really wanted to like, but whose system I couldn't understand. Is it relatively easy to play?

As another point of reference, I was able to play Persona 3 & 4 in my sleep. Not saying those are the most complicated JRPGs ever, just proving that if I dig the story, I'll force myself to learn how to properly play the rest.

What was the last great jrpg before Persona 4? Final Fantasy XII?

That's easy: Panzer Dragoon Saga.

[dhex]

bioware's da universe is baffling. half of it is actually interesting, in terms of taking standard tropes and playing them in new ways. the other half is elves.

"but wait!" says bioware. "the elves are like jews!"

this isn't nearly as exciting as you guys think it is.

it's 2009 there's no need for elves or dwarves. just have hippies and miners and you're set.

i don't think picking on jrpgs is a cheap tactic so much as an obvious comparison. mmos, tabletop, wrpgs, jrpgs.

i do think matt is playing the wrong genre; adventure games would give you the story minus the shitty combat.

(in an alternate universe i'd tell him to play planescape: torment aka best story in a game ever)