Maturity and gaming.

[Llydis]

Found a post on 4CR that was asking it's posters to chime in.

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2009/07/26/chime-in-maturity-and-gaming/

Movies explore mature subjects all the time. Love, death, despair, oppression, and even simple happiness, among others. But, despite what major game studios tell us year in and year out, games are not movies. Repeat that with me - games are not movies. Games have lived in the shadow of the film industry for years, so perhaps the constant comparison to them is a form of self validation. Fundamentally, are video games a valid format to actually explore mature themes, or are they instead betrayed by their own distinctive interactive nature?

Personally, I don't find games like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, and Gears of War to be mature at all(doesn't mean they're bad, but not mature.) They're power trip fantasies, which is one facet of gaming that has always been around and will continue to be around. They're fun, like a Michael Bay movie kind of fun.

But, games like Earthbound, Mother 3, The Longest Journey, Hotel Dusk and Persona 2: EP are mature. Those are the ones off the top of my head(I'm pretty sure the Silent Hill series counts too, at least 1-3.)

Mostly because they explore human nature in a way that probably only video games can. In the case of something like Earthbound and Mother 3, surprisingly so since the game's visual appearance doesn't show what lies between the lines of dialogue(well, that and they're written in a way that leads to more questions than answers sometimes.)

But, yeah, the ESRB rating only depicts what the people reviewing the game can see on the screen. Not that it actually depicts whether a game provokes thought or not. A lot of games do not need to provoke thought, they just need to be fun. But, I'm wondering who actually thinks that something like GoW provides any sense of maturity at all(aside from teenage boys and man children?)

[FortNinety]

First off, the writer of the 4CR site either is being short-sighted when he believes that the term maturity, as used by the ESRB, assumes that violence and sex is a sign of maturity, or simply using it is a poor means to get into the same, tired territory.

Or perhaps I'm being harsh, but semi-related: last night was a cocktail party for Stephen Totilo at Gawker HQ, and there was a mix between game journalist vets and fresh faces. Perhaps I count as a member of the former because myself and another "old timer" were chatting with a relative new guy on the scene, who brought up the subject of maturity in relation to video games, along with stuff like narrative and the dynamic advantages games have over movies when telling a story. And both me and vet could only respond by rolling our eyes (but in the nicest way possible) and try to change the subject.

I guess my point is, I believe the entire subject matter to be silly to discuss to death since video games haven't been around all that long, so there's still a lot of territory to explore, as well as time in the future to make the assessment if games can be as meaningful devices as books and movies. Also, game designers only recently have stopped aspiring to be be the next Spielberg and truly embrace the medium, so once again, we need more time to point towards compelling evidence to prove either point. As a result, most arguments seem to just go in circles, with the only difference being some new game that just came out that is perceived to be more "mature" that the rest.

But still, I guess there's some merit to discussion, since it obviously got a healthy reaction, as evidenced by the comments.

[isfet]

as a kid, i always sort of found it mildly amusing that games with lots of "violence" and blood, like Mortal Kombat would receive Mature ratings, but games like Final Fantasy Tactics or Xenogears, which were ridden with murder, betrayal, blatant atheism and killing of god, got by pretty much unscathed.  not to imply that those games are necessarily "mature," but i always felt like their content would probably be more objectionable to the majority of people as opposed to MK's cartoony decapitations.

[Llydis]

Not to imply games are equatable to literature, but a lot of books deal with the same subjects of Death, Betrayal and etc...

I guess my point is, I believe the entire subject matter to be silly to discuss to death since video games haven't been around all that long, so there's still a lot of territory to explore, as well as time in the future to make the assessment if games can be as meaningful devices as books and movies. Also, game designers only recently have stopped aspiring to be be the next Spielberg and truly embrace the medium, so once again, we need more time to point towards compelling evidence to prove either point. As a result, most arguments seem to just go in circles, with the only difference being some new game that just came out that is perceived to be more "mature" that the rest.

You're probably right about the question of games being mature is being thrown about in ways that do not provoke a response that leads to more questioning. Games right now are pretty much in the stage of finding it's identity as a medium as opposed to asking itself if a game can be mature or not. Games themselves right now have trouble making a narrative that you can uniquely tell with a video game.

We won't know until probably 20-30 years into the future which game either past, present or yet to come which game(or games) started exploring the right questions to ask when combining narrative and gameplay.

I think the word "mature" itself has been poisoned by the fact that games that get the rating "M" implies that they're dealing with mature subject matter when probably most of the time they aren't. As Isfet pointed out games that have been rated lower have had more mature themes about them. I'm beginning to wonder what kind of rating Mother 3 would've had if it came out over here officially untouched?

[FortNinety]

Mother 3's ESRB rating will be based upon primarily of language, any drug and alcohol references, and realistic portrayal of violence. The ESRB always has been, and always will be, a tool for parents to help make purchasing decisions. Just as the motion picture association's ratings have been for the past X number of years. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Llydis]

Yeah, but the point is it's rating does not determine it's maturity level. A lot of people tend to believe if they're told something contains "mature subject matter" then the subject matter is actually mature.

[dhex]

i think maturity seekers would probably be best served by the IF/adventure game stuff coming out of the pc arena. it seems to be the most well-written and engaging material is produced for that particular niche.

however, i wouldn't know for sure because IF/interactive fiction are boring as hell to me.

Games themselves right now have trouble making a narrative that you can uniquely tell with a video game.

i disagree. narrative is more than story; narrative is also "i picked up a korean soldier and threw him into a burning house and then jumped on top of a building and grenaded the hell out of his friends" because i am an active participant. in the best of games (i.e. my favorites) authorial intent is thrown out the window in favor of doing whatever the hell one likes.

[Llydis]

I'd rather not play IF either... It's basically a regression to the old Infocom days when it would've mattered.

Whenever you're playing the guy throwing the Korean in a burning house and grenade his friends, what kind of genre of music would you like playing in the background while doing that? Weird question, but would it help the narrative you're trying to create for  yourself more if one genre of music was played over another?

[dhex]

i am all about custom soundtracks. but i mostly turn off the soundtrack if i'm first person shooterizing, especially anything stealthy (or in the case of crysis, predator-y). everything is pretty michael bay-ish that's not epic strings n' things (for rpgs and otherwise).

but the if/adventure game thing isn't necessarily the worst place to start looking, since it's most invested in trying to tell a traditional narrative via traditional means.

[Llydis]

I find when I'm playing racing games I usually turn the soundtrack to electronic music since it seems to help with my driving. Or sometimes a more rocking soundtrack since that also seems to help. Or, when I play something like Test Drive Unlimited, podcasts, and that is inexplicable.

I really wish some of the IF people would try to go for a graphical adventure game at some point though. I am glad Ron Gilbert is getting back into the swing of things also.